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“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第1张图片

法国巴黎阿里格涂鸦博物馆|Museum of Graffiti. Image © Aki Furudate

“One Day All the Dreamers Will Get Together to Build a Fantastic World”: In Conversation with Massimiliano and Doriana Fuksas


意大利建筑师Massimiliano与Doriana Fuksas都在罗马出生长大,且两人都毕业于罗马La Sapienza大学,他毕业于1969年,而她毕业于1979年。在开始学习时,他是一位画家,而她最开始学的是艺术史。在60年代早期,Massimiliano曾是Giorgio De Chirico的助理,在毕业之后,任职于伦敦阿基格拉姆学派,而后来则于哥本哈根与Henning Larsen 、Jørn Utzon共事。在1967年,他开始了首个项目GRANMA。Doriana于1985年与他合作,并且在1997年成为了共同合伙人。后来该事务所1989年开设巴黎工作室,于2004年开设深圳工作室。在2000年,Massimiliano Fuksas是第七届威尼斯建筑双年展的负责人,本次主题为“少一些美学,多一些道德”。他们的著名作品有法国巴黎阿里格涂鸦博物馆、深圳宝安国际机场、罗马欧洲会议中心、新米兰交易所、Zenith音乐厅、特拉维夫Peres和平住宅。最近,他们来到纽约,我便与他们会面,到目前为止,他们只在纽约完成了一个项目,即阿玛尼第五大道旗舰店。在本次会面中,我们聊了他们如何着手新项目,也聊了他们对于未来的看法,以及建筑的不同发展方向。

Italian architects Massimiliano and Doriana Fuksas were both born and grew up in Rome. Both graduated from La Sapienza University – he in 1969, she a decade later. He started his studies as a painter, she initially persued the history of art. In the early 60s, Massimiliano assisted Giorgio De Chirico and after graduation worked for Archigram in London and then for Henning Larsen and Jørn Utzon in Copenhagen. He started his first practice, the GRANMA in 1967. Doriana joined him in 1985 and became an equal partner in 1997. Subsequent offices were opened in Paris (1989) and in Shenzhen (2004). In 2000, Massimiliano Fuksas served as the Director of the 7th Venice Architecture Biennale under the theme "Less Aesthetics, More Ethics." The duo’s most recognized built works include Museum of Graffiti in Ariege, France; Shenzen Bao'an International Airport; EUR Convention Centre in Rome; New Milan Trade Fair, Rho-Pero; Zenith Music Hall in Strasbourg; and Peres Peace House in Jaffa, Tel Aviv. I met with the architects during their recent visit to New York where so far, they completed only one project, Armani 5th Avenue Flagship Store. We discussed how they start again with every project, their preoccupation with the future, and why buildings should try to become something else.

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第2张图片

深圳宝安国际机场|© Archivio Fuksas. Image Shenzhen Airport

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第3张图片

深圳宝安国际机场|© Archivio Fuksas. Image Shenzhen Airport

Vladimir Belogolovsky(下文称为VB):你们都希望成为艺术家。艺术对于你们今天的作品有很大影响吗?

Massimiliano Fuksas(下文称为MF):是的。但是更多的是哲学,而非艺术自身。我们无所谓形状与形式。它们变化多端。Arthur Schopenhauer曾经说过,“变化才是永恒不朽的。”如果你问我怎么做建筑,那么我也不会告诉你。但是建筑关乎文化、知识、教育,而非经济。其目的是让世界变得更美好。

Doriana Fuksas(下文称为DF):我的方法不一样,因为我学的是艺术历史,而不是艺术。我也不会画画,因此我一般让他先着手。(笑)




Vladimir Belogolovsky: You both first wanted to be artists. Is art still a strong influence on your work today?
Massimiliano Fuksas: Yes, of course. But more philosophy than the art itself. We don’t care about shapes and forms. They come and go. Arthur Schopenhauer said, “Change alone is eternal, perpetual, immortal.” If you are going to ask me how I do architecture I will not tell you. But architecture is all about culture, knowledge, and education, not the economy. It is also about making our world a little bit better.
Doriana Fuksas: My approach is different because I studied art history, not art. I don’t paint, so I let Massimiliano start first. [Laughs.]

VB: Massimiliano, how do you start? You said, “For me, it is often a painting that marks the beginning of a concept.”
MF: I don’t start, I continue! I am always drawing and painting. And then the project comes. I need to be ready for a project to come at the right moment. I am building up the intensity of feelings and thinking that drives me. There is no inspiration; it is about getting ready to express our emotions to be able to give expression. A feeling of surprise is important.
DF: Ideas never come out of the blue; you need to look around and pay attention to how people live. Architecture should accommodate people, their environments and their desires. Architecture is for people; otherwise, it is a mistake.

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第4张图片

斯特拉斯堡天顶音乐厅|© Airdiasol. Image Zenith House in Strasbourg

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第5张图片

斯特拉斯堡天顶音乐厅|© Moreno Maggi. Image Zenith House in Strasbourg





VB:Wolf Prix曾经说过,“明天与昨天,就差两天。”



VB: Every environment is very particular, so every project tends to be different, right?  
MF: That’s right, I don’t stop thinking and drawing, but with every project, I start again every time.

VB: You said, “For me, architecture is the art of forgetting. Otherwise, you become nostalgic. Every day you have to forget what you did the day before.”
MF: Yes, we forget our past projects and start from scratch, every time. The question is – what is the future? I am an architect and for me now is the future. We have to envision it; for us the future is today.

VB: Wolf Prix said, “Two days from now tomorrow will be yesterday.”
MF: Of course, we always think about the future. But it is not just because we need to accelerate everything. It is not because the clients push us to work fast. We like working fast because we want to keep up with our emotions. We need to make immediate and spontaneous decisions. Otherwise, there is no energy, no intensity.  
DF: There must be discipline and the decisions need to be made swiftly. Most importantly, we don’t want to repeat what we did before.

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第6张图片

新米兰交易所|© Archivio Fuksas. Image New Milan Trade Fair

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第7张图片

新米兰交易所|© Studio Fuksas. Image New Milan Trade Fair

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第8张图片

新米兰交易所|© Archivio Balloon Promotion sas. Image New Milan Trade Fair




VB: Can you honestly say about your career that you are perpetually going forward? Do you think we live in the times when the future is celebrated? If you look around, you will not see many groundbreaking and risk-taking projects today. Look at the Center Pompidou, for example; there is nothing like it today. There is no need for that kind of revolution. Do you feel this reality in your work?
MF: Well, we are always engaged at the moment. I like working all around the world. We like the idea of understanding others and each other. But in the end, we are all the same. We have the same needs, the same feelings, and the same dreams. We don’t like to compare our projects.
DF: We move on. We have no choice.  

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第9张图片

第比利斯公共服务大厅|© Archivio Fuksas. Image Service Hall in Tbilisi









VB: You often talk about emotions and mood that architecture can bring to people. What are the main intentions behind your architecture? What is your architecture about?
MF: We always have the same client – not Mr. or Ms. Smith, but a human being. We want to design something that would allow people to have a dream. And we don’t want them to have the same dreams as ours. We want them to have their own dreams. The world is for dreamers. One day all the dreamers will get together to build a fantastic world.

VB: What is a good building for you?
MF: What is a bad building for you?

VB: For me, a bad building is something I would not notice at all.
MF: Well, a good building is something that is capable of becoming something else, a dream.

VB: You said, “You have to have more dreams for your future than about the past.”
MF: It doesn’t matter what dreams you had in the past and how many were realized. You may have realized one thousand dreams, but you still need to have a thousand dreams more. It is all about the future.

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第10张图片

第比利斯rhike公园音乐中心和展厅|© Archivio Fuksas. Image Rhike Park in Tbilis




VB: Architects now talk about context a lot. But you said. “The context is not only what we have in front of us, which is related to the past, but it is also thinking of the cities of the future. Being contemporary means working in an area considering how it will be at least in the next twenty years.”
MF: I see the future in every context. You can’t dream if you only see what’s in front of you now. You can’t preserve everything, only what is essential. To move forward we must change the context. The context is the future.
MF: Yes, it is all about being able to feel architecture with all your senses. You don’t just see it with your eyes. Beethoven could not hear his music, he could see it. What is architecture? We are just about to discover it. I am sure of it!

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第11张图片

新罗马EUR区会议中心及酒店|New Rome EUR. Image © Leonardo Finotti

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第12张图片

新罗马EUR区会议中心及酒店|New Rome EUR. Image © Leonardo Finotti

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第13张图片

新罗马EUR区会议中心及酒店|New Rome EUR. Image © Leonardo Finotti

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第14张图片

特拉维夫Peres和平住宅|© Amit Geron. Image Peres House

“有一天所有梦想家会共同建造奇妙的世界”:与Massimiliano和 Doriana Fuksas的访谈第15张图片

法国巴黎阿里格涂鸦博物馆|Museum of Graffiti. Image © Aki Furudate




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