清华大学海洋中心｜© Zhang Chao. ImageTsinghua Ocean Center / OPEN Architecture

“Architecture is Hope”: A Conversation with Li Hu of OPEN Architecture

由专筑网王雪纯，李韧编译

近年来，在经历与许多中国的领先独立建筑师会面，并参观他们在中国各地的建筑作品之后，笔者对于他们作出的贡献的逐渐有了敏感诗意的美学理解。然而，作品许多的规模都较小，这些作品通常远离城市中心，面向群体仍然是大众，另外，项目也缺乏多样性和冒险精神。以下摘自笔者在纽约对北京建筑师李虎的采访，他的回答推翻了我的疑虑，给了我对中国城市未来的希望。

李虎在清华大学和莱斯大学毕业后，与建筑大师斯蒂文·霍尔（Steven Holl）一起工作了十年，他们先是在纽约合作，然后李虎创建了在北京的工作室，两人又在中国的几个重大项目上合作。这一独特的经历也使他与他的合作伙伴黄文菁能够融洽地合作，李虎建立了OPEN建筑事务所，这是一个位于北京的实验设计和研究工作室。从那以后，他们设计了非常多优秀的城市项目，笔者采访了李虎的设计灵感、设计意图，以及建筑能给人们带来希望的原因。

Meeting with many leading, independent Chinese architects and visiting their built works throughout China in recent years has shaped my understanding of their contributions as regionally sensitive, poetic, photogenic, and even seductive. Yet, so many of these projects can be confused as being produced by a single, narrowly-focused practice. These works are often small in scale and built far from urban centers where ordinary people could benefit from them most. There is a lack of diversity and risk-taking. The following excerpt from my interview with Beijing-based architect Li Hu on his recent visit to New York overturned my doubts and gave me much hope for China’s urban future.
Being educated at Tsinghua University in Beijing and Rice University in Houston, Li Hu worked with Steven Holl for a decade – first in New York and then as the director of his Beijing office, collaborating on several major projects in China. That unique experience prepared him well when together with his partner Huang Wenjing, Li founded OPEN Architecture, an experimental design and research studio based in Beijing. Since then they have realized a series of fantastic urban projects that we discussed along with Li’s inspirations, intentions, and why architecture can give people hope.


© Wu Qingshan


秦皇岛UCCA沙丘美术馆｜© OPEN Architecture. ImageUCCA Dune Art Museumi / OPEN Architecture

Vladimir Belogolovsky（下文简称VB）：你曾和斯蒂文·霍尔合作密切。你能谈谈他对你的影响吗？

李虎（下文简称LH）：我的确受到许多影响，但我总是故意避免与斯蒂文的工作重复 [笑]。首先，任何项目都需要从一开始就采用清晰而强大的概念，不然之后轻易就会发生改动。但改动总是存在的，例如预算、时间等等影响因素。但如果你的想法强烈，它将会一直保留下来。我说的是真正的想法，而不仅仅是美化。每个项目在开始时都是最初的灵感和细节。斯蒂文总是说 “略过中间步骤”，比如外立面的装饰。项目的开始源自一个想法，最后通过选择纹理、材料和关键细节实现人性化，并在某种程度上赋予项目一种精神品质。

我从斯蒂文那里学到的第二课是成为理想主义者的重要性。要在这个非常艰难的职业中生存，你必须是一位理想主义者，这意味着不会因为外界去妥协你的价值观，你可以对项目说不，但不要强行改变你的价值取向。而第三个影响是，斯蒂文像一位艺术家一样工作。

VB：这也是你的工作方式吗？你觉得自己是艺术家吗？

LH：并不完全是。我们的工作不同。我不会用水彩画来画每个项目的草图。但对我而言，艺术家才是真正相信自我的人。建筑是一种表达方式。你说的建筑是工作，但我说的建筑是艺术。每个项目都必须与建筑师的想法和意图产生共鸣。

Vladimir Belogolovsky: You worked very closely with Steven Holl. Could you talk about his influences on you?
LH: There are many influences, but I intentionally avoid any formal similarities with Steven’s work. [Laughs]. First, any project needs to be driven by a clear and strong concept from the very beginning, in order not to be compromised as easily. There is always a compromise – budget, time, and so on. But if your idea is strong it will survive to the end. I am talking about real ideas, not mere beautification. Every project –is framed by the original idea in the beginning and the details at the end. Steven always said, “Skip the middle step,” such as dressing façades. You start with an idea and you end with details that bring a human touch and, in a way, spiritual quality to the project by focusing on the texture, materials, and key details.  
The second lesson I learned from Steven is the importance of being an idealist. To survive this very tough profession you must be an idealist, meaning not making any compromises to your values. You can say no to a project but do not compromise your values. And the third influence – he works like an artist.

VB: Is that how you work? Do you see yourself as an artist?
LH: Not literally. We work differently. I don’t start every project with watercolors. But to me, an artist is someone who does what he truly believes in. Architecture is a means of expression. You are saying something with your work. To me that’s art. Every project must resonate with the architect’s ideas and intentions.






山谷音乐厅｜© OPEN Architecture. ImageChapel of Sound / OPEN Architecture

VB：你的山谷音乐厅项目的灵感来自于你从印度带回来的石头。对我来说，这种洞察力非常令具有新鲜感，因为现在的建筑师不再公开承认拥有可能是自发、非理性的随机灵感。这是一个典型的过程吗？

LH：灵感来自不同的方向。任何设计过程都是对创意的追求。想法必须与形式一同存在。这块石头是2008年我们做印度项目“Metro Valley Business Park”的时候带回来的，当时它并没有成为设计灵感。我总是从我们工作的地方收集一些东西，例如岩石、贝壳、浮木。我只是拿起有些奇怪或特殊的东西，没有特别的目的。用或不用都是随机的，它们只是记忆碎片。这块岩石是我们办公室货架上的物品。有时你只是瞥一眼东西，但想法就随之而生。

VB：这个故事证明了建筑设计非常自发，可以进入多个方向。

LH：它证明了建筑既有意也无意，既理性也非理性。它永远不会是一加一等于二的模式。所以有时，设计过程可能需要很长时间，有时这个过程也能非常快。尽管如此，即使灵感很快出现，我们也可能需要花费数月时间来实现它们。

VB：所以，当你看着这块来自印度的石头和山谷音乐厅的最终形式的时候，你仍然可以识别那种形式，对吧？

LH：是的。[笑]

VB: Your Chapel of Sound project was inspired by a stone that you brought from India. To me this insight is quite refreshing because architects no longer openly admit to having such inspirations that may be spontaneous, irrational, and random. Is it a typical process for you or was it uncharacteristic?
LH: Inspirations come from different directions. Any design process is a search for ideas. And ideas must work with forms. I brought the stone from the site of our very first project, the Metro Valley Business Park, that we did in India in 2008; it has not yet been realized. I always collect something from the sites where we work – rocks, shells, driftwood. I just pick up things that may be strange or special for no particular purpose. I may use them for something or I may not. They are just memory pieces. So that piece of rock was among many other objects that sit on shelves in our office. Sometimes you glance at something and it sparks an idea.

VB: This example proves that architectural design is quite spontaneous and can go into many directions.
LH: It proves that architecture is about both the intentional and unintentional, rational and irrational. It is never as simple as one plus one equals two. So sometimes, the design process can take a long time; other times, it can be very fast. Still, even when ideas come quickly, we may need to spend months developing them.

VB: So, if you look at that stone from India and the final form of the Chapel of Sound you can still recognize that form, right?
LH: Yes. [Laughs.]




秦皇岛UCCA沙丘美术馆｜© Wu Qingshan. ImageUCCA Dune Art Museumi / OPEN Architecture

VB：让我们更多地谈谈你的灵感。例如，你说你的沙丘美术馆的灵感来自于挖沙的孩子们。这个概念是如何形成的？

LH：嗯，我对沙丘其实有多想法。然而，在沙丘上设计的选择是有限的。就那个美术馆而言，我有一天早上醒来，绘制了一个准确到类似于最终建造的草图。其中一个灵感来自于路易斯·康（Louis Kahn）的说法，即建筑是一个房间里的社会。万神殿及其眼睛是另一个灵感，它们是天然的石窟和洞穴，就像葡萄牙的Benagil 海滩海蚀洞（Benagil Beach Sea Cave）一样。在我们的所有项目中，自然就是灵感。我调查了我之前提到的草图相关的所有资料。因此，在该项目中有多个灵感，挖掘沙子的柔软和无形的感觉，探索最佳的形式来保持沙子的压力，等等。

VB：没有特定的预案，对吗？

LH：最初有一个没有人管理的繁琐预案，这是许多中国项目的性质，不像在西方，一切都由董事会管理，他们会提供一个非常详细的计划，设计师只拥有很小的重塑空间。在中国，你需要负责繁琐的计划、挑剔的预算，通常没有管理人员。所以，从你的想法开始，你就需要一直运用想象力。这种自由度对工作非常重要。沙丘美术馆的设计方案几乎是立即获得批准的。能够用一种无拘无束的理想主义来说服你的客户非常重要。随后，我们花了一年的时间来实现它。如果我们没有截止日期，我们仍然会继续努力，因为可以不断改进。这就是建筑的本质。

VB: Let’s talk more about your inspirations. For example, you said that your Dune Museum was inspired by children digging in the sand. How was that concept developed?
LH: Well, there were so many things there. Yet, when you decide to design in the dunes your choices are limited. In the case of that museum, I woke up one morning and did a sketch that very accurately resembles what ultimately was built. One of the inspirations was Louis Kahn’s phrase that a building is a society of rooms. The Pantheon with its oculus was another idea, as were natural grottos and caves, such as Benagil Beach Sea Cave in Portugal. Nature as an inspiration can be found in all of our work. And all of these things were researched before I did the sketch that I mentioned. So, there are multiple inspirations in that project: digging into the sand, the feeling of sand’s softness and formlessness, the exploration of forms that are optimal to withhold the sand’s pressure all around, and so on.

VB: And there was no particular program, right?
LH: Well, initially, there was a fussy program with no operator, which is the nature of many Chinese projects—unlike in the West where everything is run by huge boards of directors who hand you a very detailed program that needs to be followed with little space for reinventing it. In China, you work on fussy programs, with fussy budgets, and often with no operator. So, you start with an interesting idea and you use your imagination all the time. That kind of freedom is very important for the work. This project was approved right away. It is important to be able to convince your client with a kind of unbound idealism. Then it took us a year just to develop the forms. And if we didn’t have the deadline we would be still working on it, because you can keep improving things endlessly. That’s the nature of architecture.




秦皇岛歌华营地体验中心｜© Xia Zhi. ImageGehua Youth and Cultural Center / Open Architecture

VB：你说当代城市应该提供“一个快乐的空间。” 你描述你的作品为“将乐趣和诗歌注入太空。” 你能详细说明吗？

LH：我们总是尝试创造空间来写意。建筑不仅仅是建造和实体。如果我们谈论的是平庸的建筑，那自不必说。但良好的建筑会带来情感，会带来诗歌、欢乐、灵性、包容、羁绊。我刚刚从巴西回来，在那里我参观了丽娜·柏·巴蒂（Lina Bo Bardi）、奥斯卡·尼迈耶（Oscar Niemeyer）、保罗·门德斯·达·洛查（Paulo Mendes da Rocha）的许多现代主义作品。我觉得这些作品非常富有诗意、包容性和精神性。这些建筑物涉及很多东西，我在情感上真的与它们联系在一起。作品非常漂亮又包容，空间也很大方。我想做如今已近消失了的建筑。建筑师曾经非常理想化，现在他们更加寻求机遇。

VB：你说，“我们寻求用最简单但最强大的方式来表达我们的情感和反应，创造一种奇特、愉悦和感人的体验。”这是你建筑的终极目标吗？

LH：以最理想的方式，是的。建筑应该成为一个奇观，不是因为它的奇怪形式，而是因为其艺术水平。当你观察沙丘艺术空间时，建筑会消失，成为艺术的低调背景。这种时候，建筑本身就是一个奇观。因此，一座好建筑应该既是一种架子或平台，可以预测场地内发生的许多事情，也是一个有意义的特殊场所，它本身就很突出。建筑非常复杂，它不能用一句话来概括。

VB: You said that contemporary cities should offer “a space of joy.” And you added that your work “tries to inject pleasure and poetry into space.” Could you elaborate on that?
LH: We always try to create space with an expression. Architecture is not just buildings and objects. It could be if we are talking about mediocre architecture. But good architecture radiates with emotions. Poetry, joy, spirituality, inclusiveness, connectedness. I just came back from Brazil where I visited many modernist projects by Lina Bo Bardi, Oscar Niemeyer, Paulo Mendes da Rocha; I find these works to be very poetic, inclusive, and spiritual. These buildings are about many things; I really connected with them emotionally. They are very beautiful, inclusive, and spatially generous. I want to do architecture of generosity, which is missing today. Architects used to be very idealistic and now they are more opportunistic.   

VB: You said, “We seek to use architecture to express our emotions and reactions in the simplest, yet most powerful way – to create a kind of spectacle, a delightful, and touching experience.” Is this the ultimate goal of your architecture – to create “a kind of spectacle, a delightful, and touching experience?”
LH: In the most idealistic way, yes. A building should become a spectacle—not for its strange form, but for raising itself to the level of art. If you look at the Dune Art Space, in a way, it disappears and becomes a humble background for the art. At the same time, it is a spectacle in and of itself. So, a good building should be both – at once a kind of shelf or platform to anticipate many things which will happen there, and a meaningful, special place which stands out on its own. Architecture is so complex; it can’t be summarized in a word.   


© Wu Qingshan


秦皇岛UCCA沙丘美术馆｜© OPEN Architecture. ImageUCCA Dune Art Museumi / OPEN Architecture

VB：但是，当你试图选择正确的词时，它会迫使你以最基本的方式检查你的工作。你经常使用开放性、连通性和伸出范围等词语。那么，你还会用什么其他词来描述你的工作以及你尝试实现的建筑类型？

LH：我会用希望这个词。建筑是希望。无论我们对世界多么懊恼，当我们工作时，我们表达了我们的希望。我们将它注入所做的一切。我们作为艺术家，我们在建筑中表达所信仰的一切。

VB：对中国或整个世界的现状进行评论时，你发表的观点是：“我们建造得太多太快。”你怎么看待这一点？建筑和设计使得时间进一步压缩，建筑师应该如何适应这一现实？

LH：这是真话，我们建立得太多也太快了。建筑已经成为一种商品、政治宣传、或者经济引擎，而不是让人们更加紧密的艺术品。特别是在中国，建筑师还没有准备好应对这一挑战，建筑行业还没有准备好，我们的政治家和开发商还没准备好。我们已经建造了某些已经成为我们未来遗憾的项目。我们不能轻易地重建我们在过去几十年积累的东西。但我们将在很长一段时间内接受这种生活。我们不仅建造了愚蠢的建筑而且建造了愚蠢的城市。我们没有时间计划所谓正确的事情。我们积累了无意识的垃圾产品。

VB: Still, when you try to pick the right words, it forces you to examine your work in the most fundamental ways. You often use such words as openness, connectedness, and reaching out. What other single words would you use to describe your work and the kind of architecture that you try to achieve?
LH: I would use the word hope. Architecture is hope. No matter how angry we get about our world, when we work we express our hope. We inject it into everything we do. We work as artists, we express in our architecture everything we believe in.

VB: Critiquing the current situation in China, or perhaps around the world in general, you made this comment: “We build too much, too fast.” What do you think about this – construction and design process time are only going to compress further, how should architects adapt to that reality?
LH: This is true, we build too much, too fast. Architecture has become a commodity, political propaganda, an engine for the economy rather than a work of art to serve the public by bringing people closer together. Particularly here in China, architects are not ready to take on this challenge, the building industry is not ready, our politicians and developers are not ready. We have created projects that already have become our regrets in the future. We can’t easily rebuild what we accumulated in the last couple of decades. We are going to live with that for a very long time. We have built not only stupid architecture but stupid cities. We didn’t have time to plan something smart. We have amassed a mindless production of junk.


© Zhang Chao


© Zhang Chao


© Iwan Baan


清华大学海洋中心｜© Zhang Chao. ImageTsinghua Ocean Center / OPEN Architecture

VB：似乎有很多中国独立建筑师做了很好的项目，他们完全放弃了在城市中发挥作用的想法。许多人已退到乡村从事小型项目，这实际上才是国际媒体鼓励和欣赏的内容。而主流建筑师甚至在摧毁中国城市。

LH：我同意。令人遗憾的是，在大多数情况下，建立城市中心的机会是给予大型企业公司和设计院，而不是年轻的独立中国建筑师，他们往往被剥夺了通过设计城市项目来充分体现自己的才能的机会。尽管陷入困境，我们仍努力在城市工作。我相信公共建筑会越来越好。

VB：中国建筑师告诉我，为了完成好的工作，他们需要遵循这两个套路，要么开设一家与建筑无关的成功企业，如餐厅或酒店，要么通过将项目分成两组来确定优先顺序，以便大型、平庸且有利可图的项目能够补贴那些小型、实验性和亏损性的项目。这对你来说是真的吗？

LH：我可以说出这两种类型的很多例子，其中的一些建筑师现在非常有名。但我不信这个，我不是一个很好的商人[笑]。我听到亨利·考伯（Henry Cobb）曾和弗兰克·盖里（Frank Gehry）聊天，内容正好和你说的第二个套路差不多，“你有前门和后门。你得关闭其中一个，否则你最终会做一些对你一生都不重要的事情。“从那以后，弗兰克·盖里关闭了后门。这就是我开始的方式。对我来说，一切都必须是理想主义。我的建筑不是生意。你要么是一位好商人，要么是一位好建筑师。我只想做我理解的和我深爱的事。

VB: And it seems that so many of the Chinese independent architects who are doing good projects, completely gave up on the idea that they could be relevant in cities. So many have retreated to the countryside to work on tiny projects, which are actually encouraged and celebrated by the international press. While the mainstream architects keep destroying Chinese cities.
LH: I agree. It's an unfortunate reality that the opportunity to build in urban centers is, for the most part, given to larger corporate firms and design institutes rather than to young independent Chinese architects who are often denied the chance to make full use of their talents by working on more relevant urban projects. We try to work in cities despite all the struggles involved. I believe in celebrating public architecture.

VB: Chinese architects told me that to produce good work you need to follow one of the two models. You either open a successful business unrelated to architecture such as a restaurant or hotel. Or you prioritize by breaking projects into two groups so that large, mediocre, and profitable projects would subsidize the ones that are small, experimental, and losing money. Is it true for you?   
LH: Well, I can name many examples of those two types; some of these architects are quite famous now. But I don’t believe in that. I am not a very good businessman. [Laughs.] I heard Henry Cobb once told Frank Gehry, who was actually following the second model you are referring to, “You have the front door and the back door. You close one of them or you will end up doing something that’s not important your whole life.” Since then Gehry closed the back door. This is how I started from day one. To me, everything must be idealistic. Architecture to me is not business. You are either a good businessman or a good architect. I want to do what I know and love best.


© Xia Zhi


© Xia Zhi


秦皇岛歌华营地体验中心｜© Xia Zhi. ImageGehua Youth and Cultural Center / Open Architecture


© Su Shenliang


北京四中房山校区｜© Xia Zhi. ImageGarden School / OPEN Architecture


© Wu Qingshan


© Wu Qingshan


© Xiaomi


© Wu Qingshan


© Xiaomi


火星生活舱｜© Wu Qingshan. ImageMARS Case / OPEN Architecture


© Wu Qingshan


上海油罐艺术中心｜© Wu Qingshan. ImageTank Shanghai / OPEN Architecture


© OPEN Architecture


上海青浦平和双语学校｜© OPEN Architecture. ImageQingpu Pinghe School / OPEN Architecture

作者简介：

VLADIMIR BELOGOLOVSKY是总部位于纽约的非盈利策展项目的创始人。他曾在纽约Cooper Union担任建筑师，曾写过九本书，包括：《New York: Architectural Guide》（DOM，2019）、《Conversations with Architects in the Age of Celebrity》（DOM，2015）、《Harry Seidler：LIFEWORK》（Rizzoli， 2014）和《Soviet Modernism: 1955-1985》（TATLIN，2010）。他的众多展览包括：Harry Seidler（2012年起）世界巡回展会、Emilio Ambasz（2017-18）、Sergei Tchoban（自2016年起）、哥伦比亚：Transformed（美国巡演，2013-15）和俄罗斯国际象棋游戏第11届威尼斯建筑双年展馆（2008年）。 Belogolovsky是柏林建筑杂志SPEECH的美籍记者。2018年，他是北京清华大学的访问学者。他曾在30多个国家的大学和博物馆讲学。

Belogolovsky的专栏“City of Ideas”向ArchDaily的读者介绍了他与最具创新性的国际建筑师的最新对话。自2002年以来，他采访了300多名建筑师。而这些密切会谈也成为了场地的特定装置，这些装置由对话记录和一些言论构成。

VLADIMIR BELOGOLOVSKY is the founder of the New York-based non-profit Curatorial Project. Trained as an architect at Cooper Union in New York, he has written nine books, including New York: Architectural Guide (DOM, 2019), Conversations with Architects in the Age of Celebrity (DOM, 2015), Harry Seidler: LIFEWORK (Rizzoli, 2014), and Soviet Modernism: 1955-1985 (TATLIN, 2010). Among his numerous exhibitions: world tours of the work of Harry Seidler (since 2012), Emilio Ambasz (2017-18), Sergei Tchoban (since 2016), Colombia: Transformed (American Tour, 2013-15), and Chess Game for Russian Pavilion at the 11th Venice Architecture Biennale (2008). Belogolovsky is the American correspondent for Berlin-based architectural journal SPEECH. In 2018, he was a visiting scholar at Tsinghua University in Beijing. He has lectured at universities and museums in more than 30 countries.
Belogolovsky’s column, City of Ideas, introduces ArchDaily’s readers to his latest conversations with the most innovative international architects. Since 2002, he interviewed over 300 architects. These intimate conversations are featured in the curator’s ongoing site-specific installations made up of voice recordings and thought-provoking quotes.